I think that in a relationship, once people reach contempt, it is not the aggressive rage, it is the indifference that is truly terrifying. That is the sign that you may be beyond repair. You had referred to shame a second ago. – Sure. What have you felt shame about in your life? – I mean, it feels like a failure when you can’t make a relationship work, particularly if it’s with the person you have children with. And I think that it is by far the most difficult, painful decision I’ve ever made in my life to understand that it was not better for my kids to live in a house where their parents were not aligned. My parents are still together and have an incredible relationship. They worked together for many years. They’re both journalists. And I always thought that would be me. And I think the shame also comes from that when you feel like you haven’t, you know, nailed this thing that we’re supposed to nail, we’re told. Yeah. I know the idea of, you know, needing to stay together for the kids is is obviously, like, a hugely sympathetic one, and a common one, but, you know, my parents divorced when I was very young. And it was clearly the right decision, you know. But I’m sure, particularly for my mother, like, incredibly fraught. – Brave. Very, very brave. I really take pride in how good we are at co-parenting our kids in my family because we have reached this really healthy equilibrium. It’s so hard. Anyone who pretends like it’s easy and like, “Oh, you just like consciously uncouple and then you find a way, and like, oh —” It’s — that’s bullshit. It’s so hard.
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